Lately, I’ve been spreading the word about workshops that my friends and colleagues are leading: High Energy For Entrepreneur Women, Marketing For Hippies, and Raw Food For Winter.
I love being a megaphone – amplifying the reach of excellent services which more people should know about.
But what difference would it make if I were getting paid for doing this?
And what difference would it make if you were getting paid for spreading the word about me?
Earlier this year, I tentatively started a referral reward system. I invited a few dozen people who were already spreading the word about my work to register as referrers so that they could receive gratitude payments: 10% of whatever their friend or colleague paid me.
The intention was to shower these people with appreciation. They were helping my business grow and it felt like they deserved to share in my profits.
Some people were delighted by the idea and registered straight away. Others said they weren’t comfortable receiving the 10% themselves but registered in the name of their favourite charity or organization.
And others said they didn’t want any money, that the good karma of spreading the word was enough. Some even said they hated the idea of getting paid, that it made them feel ‘icky’.
This, of course, got me thinking. Was the ‘ickiness’ because giving feels good but receiving can feel uncomfortable? And if this were the case, should I be taking a stand and insisting that it’s okay for good people to receive money?
Or was there more to consider, in terms of what happens when we add the money dynamic in with word-of-mouth referrals?
I became hesitant about rolling the system out more widely until I got clear on my position.
I’m clear that I’m unclear
I’m passionate that money should flow towards those who do good. But should that just apply when the person is offering a paid-for service like coaching, acupuncture or yoga? Or could spreading the word count as ‘doing good’ and you could be financially thanked for that?
Should saying nice things about a service be ‘pure’, with no money motive? But that suggests that money makes things dirty, which I don’t believe. And there’s a delicate but important distinction between paying someone for spreading the word, rather than to spread the word.
One way of keeping it clean is to insist upon transparency: that when the referrer mentions me, they fully disclose that they receive these gratitude payments. But that doesn’t change the fact that we believe a friend’s recommendation of a service because they have no agenda other than to help us, as opposed to a salesperson on a commission. Does knowing money is involved skew the trustworthiness of an endorsement?
I have lots of questions so I decided: what better than to open the discussion up to you? Maybe you heard about my work via a recommendation or perhaps you’re already out there, spreading the word about me (thank you!). Maybe you’re an affiliate for other services or perhaps you’ve considered this minefield in relation to promoting your own business.
So, what do you think?
What system could I put in place for encouraging people to spread the word about my services and thanking them for doing so? It has to feel good for me, for the people referring and for the people hearing about me.
And, moreover, what kind of system could you have, as you expand the reach of your own business and acknowledge your ‘megaphone’ people?
It’s a rich topic for discussion – so leave a comment below, let us know…
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© Corrina Gordon-Barnes, 2011
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What a thought-provoking post, Corrina! Let me add to any debate, which I’m sure will be fast and furious, both from a ‘giving’ and ‘receiving’ viewpoint.
As a ‘giver’ of referrals, I only ever do so when I truly believe in what I am referring. I think it would damage my credibility (and the credibility of the person whose praises I was singing in the eyes of the person to whom I was singing them) if I was paid for that, not because money is dirty but because it might seem as if I was *only* referring because I was getting paid.
If I paid for referrals I would equally worry that it would seem as if I was being referred because I had paid, not because I was worth it.
In addition I do believe that one does oneself immense good by genuinely referring because one wins goodwill two ways – once from the person one refers on because you are getting them work, and once from the person to whom one refers because you are giving them a good contact. I think the system is self generating if run honestly and not just as a quid pro quo.
That said… I think there has to be at least acknowledgement here. It has happened that I have referred someone many times and they have never referred me – and have not acknowledged the fact. I came to the conclusion that either a) they didn’t meet anyone to whom they could refer me in which case they should let me know that clearly so that I knew what was happening, or b) they didn’t value my services in which case I would have been grateful had they given me useful feedback so I could change or c) they didn’t value my referrals in which case I should stop giving them.
I don’t expect people whom I refer to automatically refer me… but I get demotivated if I do refer and they don’t acknowledge that fact. And hey, if I get demotivated about doing something I … stop doing it…
Susan – Nice phrasing: the system being ‘self-generating’. You helped me see: when we promote someone’s work, it’s like giving an ethical Christmas present: we’re both (a) supporting a cool company that we’d like to see flourish, and (b) giving a cool present to someone we love. Win-win. (And we, as the giver, feel great about it: win-win-win). So maybe it’s just unnecessary to involve money..?
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
Hi Corrina,
Great blog post, as per usual! I have no doubt this topic is loaded with personal feelings for many individuals and may a great deal to do with how we’ve been exposed to thinking about money.
For me, I would have no problem with paying someone (either money, or some other kind of bonus) who has promoted my work because they genuinely thought it was worth promoting. I see it as a thank you, a flow that is needed between giving and receiving. As yet I have not had experience of paying someone money for spreading the word about me – I have certainly sent cards and flowers to friends who put in a good word for me regardless of whether I actually made money from their recommendation. I simply think it is important to share success.
I certainly love to promote other people and do so regularly on one of my blog sites. I have written about http://www.youinspireme.com on a few occasions now because you have helped me Corrina, with your words and offerings on the website – and it is just natural for me to want to pass on the information. I also found your promoting of others very helpful, for instance you mentioned your sister Rosanna http://www.rosannagordon.com who runs yoga classes in Cambridge – I read about it just as I was researching classes. I know someone who produces the most beautiful pottery http://www.etsy.com/people/RedTeaPottery and I try to spread the word about her as she has just plucked up the courage to sell it after years of thinking she wasn’t good enough.
As yet I have never been paid for having promoted someone’s work but I have received lovely thank you emails and that is lovely but even without those I would want to continue to promote people I believe in. That just seems natural.
Money can seem ‘dirty’ to some people – but that is just a perception and we can change our perceptions. Could we not see money as ‘pure’ and healthy? Money can be seen as an exchange of energy, necessary perhaps to keep the second chakra balanced? The area of money, guilt, power, creativity and ethics and honour in relationships.
There are certainly a lot of questions and I don’t think I have suggested any concrete answers! I think it will be a very emotional topic with personal connotations for different individuals.
Ani – Thank you, thank you for spreading the word! I so appreciate you being a megaphone
And delighted that you found Rosanna’s Cambridge yoga classes – maybe I’ll see you there some day!
It was fascinating to speak with you about the connection between chakras and money. It was actually Katie Rose – who’s posted a comment below yours – who first introduced me to this thinking and we’ll be covering this in Class 8 of ‘Turn Your Passion To Profit’ so I’m sure you can add a ton more on that topic.
p.s. youinspireme.com is actually a company called ‘Inspired Marketing Solutions’ out in America, I think. I’m proudly .co.uk – and again THANK YOU for featuring me on your blog.
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
Great blog as always Corrina, thanks. I love your admission that you are clear that you are unclear – me too.
There’s definitely a moral maze around this topic, and of course lots of different contexts. Referrals between small ethical businesses is one thing, although in an ideal karmic world this would tend to be two way – long term – and so balance out – and hence not be necessary??
I reckon openness and transparency are key, and limiting payments to relatively small amounts (%ages), that act as a ‘nice added bonus thankyou’ rather than potentially a significantly major inducement.
In my line of work, offering myself as an independent advisor, I think i should disclose everything – and pass on all ‘commission’ if there is any – to my client – as i am after all trying to save them money! That is part of what they get for paying me.
The solar PV market, as readers will probably know, is a lively playing field at the moment, with a bit of a Feed-In (Tariff) frenzy. There are all sorts of dodgy players crowding the market, a bit like Double Glazing salesmen! This is of course ecologically a tragedy – as PV is a very good thing to do – and the last thing the world needs is very bad salesmen – for a very good product.
One way of doing things I would favour, with largish companies, is
a system a bit like with IFAs and insurance companies. (Though instinctively I’d hate to think this murky world has got anything right!!)
But in this world the Insurance company states clearly to the insured that the IFA will get £xx commission. If there is no IFA, there is no commission paid. If the IFA wants to share the commission with their client they can, and the client sees everything.
Hope those thoughts help…
Interested to hear others
Dave
Dave – Nice comparison. And your small amounts point is useful. But as soon as it’s a ‘moral maze’, are we better just to take money out all together? Is there any worthwhile advantage of leaving money in?
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
For me there are two things to consider. The first is the full disclosure thing. I’m ridiculously passionate about full disclosure on all matters when it comes to sharing anything publicly online and whenever I use affiliate links on either my website or my newsletter I tell my readers the deal.
The second is the tax thing. Anything earned from affiliate linkage is an earning and has to be declared (and the percentage you pay is a tax deductable expense) – and that’s where it all gets complicated!
But ultimately for me, whether I’m paid or not, I will only ever recommend things to my clients that I truly believe in. So at the end of the day, whether I am paid a percentage or not, if I believe in someone’s work, I’ll pass it on.
Whether that clears anything up or merely muddies the waters further remains to be seen!!!
Rachel´s last [type] ..movement for stressed out shoulders
Rachel – Thanks for chiming in with the wise words of an accountant’s daughter! When I receive commission from the few companies I’m affiliated with, I include this as a stream of revenue in my books. But some people referring to me will not be registered as self-employed and may well not have thought of this – so you make an excellent point about that getting complicated.
So… is there any point of leaving money in the equation? Or easier all round to take it out?
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
Great post as usual. I had the same experience as you when I tried this some years ago, with people falling into the same 3 camps. And I never found a satisfactory answer so just left it hanging. I wonder now if it is just that different people value different approaches, so one-size-fits-all may not work?
And there’s perhaps a bigger question which is, assuming some people DO want to be paid for referrals, is that an effective way of generating business?
Now I find my best way of generating new referrals is simply to ask past and present clients for them.
Nick – Yes, I’ve wondered if there are two approaches needed:
(1) For people who just happily and naturally spread the word here there and everywhere and money is not involved because it’s casual and informal.
(2) For people who do some kind of ‘work’ to promote, e.g. host you on a teleclass, feature you in a newsletter, put up your posters or hand out your flyers. There’s some kind of time involved above and beyond everyday conversations, so a share in the profits might make sense?
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
I love being a MEGAPHONE for people I believe in and I love giving referrals just because. Even when I’m registered into someone’s affiliate program I often forget to put the link just because I’m excited to share the information.
I too have been hesitant to put together an affiliate program for my work, but I think I’m just going to do it for partnerships – if I partner with someone to do a joint program, I will use the affiliate fees for that because it’s more obvious when they promote it to their peeps that they are a part of it.
Great debate as usual Corrina!
Denise Duffield-Thomas´s last [type] .."Dude, Where’s My Stuff?!" What to Do When the Law of Attraction Isn’t Working For You
Denise – You are the archetypal megaphone! I actually talk about your on the ‘Turn Your Passion To Profit’ programme (and in my nearly-finished book!) as an example of someone who helped me so much with my research stage, bringing so many of my Tribe to me. So… a personal question for you… have you ever felt irked that you’ve not received any money for all that word-spreading?
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
No not at all. In fact, I rarely think about it! I get a lot of satisfaction about spreading good ideas. There’s been a few times where I thought “ooh, should have put my affiliate link there”, but it’s quicker and easier not to usually. A lot of people spread my work around too without payment because they love what I do! (including you lovely lady)
That said – I like how some big marketers do their affiliate marketing. They’ll say “if you’re buying it anyway, use my link and I’ll gift you my program to”. I think that’s classy and I’ll probably do it in the future.
Denise Duffield-Thomas´s last [type] ..Warning – it can be really dangerous
I find the whole affiliate thing a little strange, if I’m honest, not icky or wrong but just a little strange – because its new to me to involve money in a natural process of recommending and networking that for me is just part of communicating about what and who I love and enjoy in my life.
I am clear that when I make connections, that I benefit greatly – I get to see people meeting, appreciating and enjoying connection and the glow that arises from that often comes back to me in unexpected ways.
I am clear that if I wanted someone to recommend me I would want it to be heartfelt and sincere and not out of any financial obligation.
I would feel ok with hiring and paying for PR or marketing as these are not my primary skills but I know that actually word of mouth works better than most other forms of publicity and that really what creates that is getting out there and being generous, loving and courageously sharing what I am here to do in this world.
I am continually looking at what stops me doing that, as there are always new levels of growth which bring gifts and challenges.
The support of champions such as you Corrina, is invaluable and really makes a difference in the world. It is brilliant that we are all finding ways to each champion each other – and really whether money comes into it or not is actually irrelevant – because money is just a reflection of the energy that is already passing around.
I think with the current collapse around our monetary systems and all the questions being raised about values that really anything and everything can and will happen around money at present. For me money is secondary, its just a manifestation of energy that we all agreed to use as a barter system, the trouble is that we have forgotten that it is actually just a metaphor for energy rather than a reality to get attached to.
I don’t know how or when or what but I look forward to a world where at the very least we remember and value what comes first – spirit, relationship, love, community, support, creative fulfillment etc and put money second. Not because its icky, but just because at the end of the day its only paper and metal, which when you consider how much nutty stuff goes on because of it is really quite ridiculous.
Katie – Are you ever going to write a book? Seriously, your words always just hit right to the heart, so beautiful.
You’re speaking to the interdependence of us all and the truth in our community that one person succeeding is good for all others.
And a question comes up for me… You and Susan both write about the karma of it and it’s true that with both of you, I recommend people to you, you recommend people to me, it is genuinely a reciprocal arrangement. But how about when someone is continually recommending to you (giving, giving, giving) and you can’t authentically recommend them, for whatever reason? What happens with that energy imbalance? Could money be a way of correcting that balance, or can we trust that they’ll be receiving in other ways?
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
Its my experience that what goes around comes around and that sometimes tit for tat is not quite how the universe works – its much more creative than that. So yes I do trust that when someone gives to me it is because they are getting something just in the giving process itself and that also they will be supported in which ever way they need even if it isn’t a direct reciprocation. Just because I’ve experienced that when I give myself.
The whole ‘I’ve given you this and I want something back’ game becomes very conditional and exhausting otherwise, I dont think its about keeping scores – its just building trust that everyone is winning all the time. Unconditional giving is so liberating and really does attract manifold benefits and blessings.
I do of course feel its important to honour people’s contribution in whatever way I can and I have used money to say thank you to people who have supported me. There are a trillion other ways though – giving time, support, presence, warmth, conversation, service etc
Thanks for the reminder about the book. I’m still a bit challenged around getting on with it
Hi Corrina,
Very interesting subject! Shame I missed the call tonight – been on the road and just got back. Now about to have dinner. Strange thing, this time difference…
Anyway, I think the main issue for those who find it ‘icky’ is the discomfort with receiving – and of course an obstacle in business! It is usually not seen in only one area of one’s life I think, but a general issue. Maybe even in their relationships.
I think I used to feel this way too. But now I’m thinking, I’d be happy for you to sign me up to your loyalty programme! Since I joined the TYPTP programme, of course I believe in it and I tell people about it anyway. So I’d be happy to be rewarded
I think it doesn’t work if you don’t believe in it, as Rachel says – it will be obvious somehow. I know I couldn’t recommend anything I didn’t believe in, no matter how much they payed me. That’s where the difference between paying someone ‘for’ or ‘to’ spread the word comes in – paying someone for spreading the word sounds like something they would be doing anyway, but paying someone to spread the word feels like they are only doing it for the money, whether they like/believe in their subject or not. I also think the transparency factor is important, as Dave says. There’s no shame in it, but keep it out in the open
What I sometimes do is an ‘exchange’ – I recommend them, they recommend me. I link to them on my website, they link to mine. Or I offer to design a logo and business card for a friend who is training to be a shiatsu practitioner, in exchange for for shiatsu treatments.
I like Susan’s term, ‘self-generating’, and I also agree with her last paragraph. If I am the one doing all the ‘giving’ (ie referring, spreading the word and so on) and they do not appear to do anything like that in return, it’s like they don’t appreciate what I am doing for them. The thing is, it’s one thing to do someone a favour, but I won’t be taken for a fool!
As Ani says, it is a ‘flow’, an exchange of energy, which I think is spot on.
It is definitely a very personal issue. But by giving people the option of joining your scheme, they get to decide whether they want to make money out of it or not. Either way is fair enough!
Esther – I missed you on the call, I kept wanting to use you as an example and remembered you weren’t there
Enjoy catching up with the audio recording.
It’s so great that you’re happy to receive and be rewarded financially! Go Passion To Profit lady!
My concern, though, is that while it’s okay by me to give money and it’s okay by you to receive, what about the person who hears about the recommendation? Would they trust that recommendation less because money is involved? It feels like it might just throw up a shadow of doubt in their mind, that the money motivation has slanted the recommendation somewhat – even if YOU know that it hasn’t…
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
Hi again
I do really like the Chinese approach, but like you, it may feel a bit ‘forced’ – but maybe that’s because of the cultural difference in perception? Although the idea behind it I think is great.
Anyway, I see your point – and a good one it is! That really depends on the person receiving the recommendation, and maybe all you can do if you are using a reward scheme is be honest and open about it. Some will be ok with it, some may object or find it icky.
But then, if you are using another method of rewarding, such as an exchange of services, is that not also something that should be out in the open? Somehow, it may feel like this kind of rewarding is more ‘karmically correct’, but it still a reward, right? Why is it different with money? Maybe it should be an arrangement between the two parties, and their business only, however they choose to arrange it? We’re not simply sales people, we believe in what the other person is doing, so why make a big deal out of it in the first place? Do we feel like putting it out in the open because we’re feeling just a little bit icky about it ourselves? Or are we being too concerned about what others think of how we run our business and make our money?
I love Petra’s idea of collecting ‘Corrina-Coins’
That would work for me too! Maybe even more so than a financial reward come to think about it… 
You could, for example, instead of thinking in an x-percentage money value, consider an x-minute coaching session? Or give additional options, as Petra says?
My conclusion is, it’s up to the two people involved. You may set up a money-involving arrangement with one person, and a service-exchanging arrangement with another. It depends on what they both offer and what works for them. And maybe whatever the arrangement, it should stay between them…
This has been an interesting discussion! I started off thinking, it should all be out in the open, but after reading all the posts and typing my response, my conclusion has changed completely!
OOh such a juicy topic Corrina. For me, it feels right at this point,to *not* have an affiliate option for my programs or to have affiliate links for other businesses on my website.
It just feels too complicated. I like ease.
I am genuinely grateful for personal referrals and am so blessed to receive a lot of them. I always extend a sincere thank you to those individuals who send clients my way.
I also promote, sing the praises of and highly recommend a select few individuals who I have either worked with directly or have benefited from their message. I love when those folks are grateful but I don’t receive a dime for it.
When I think of receiving money “officially” for a recommendation it doesn’t feel icky. It feels more like the freedom to change my mind is somehow compromised. Like I’m suddenly locked into something.
So two values are coming up here–my preference for ease and need for freedom! LOL
Thanks for posing such a great question.
xo
Jac
Jac McNeil´s last [type] ..The Pit of Ponder
Jac – I’m not at all surprised that people are spreading the word about you, fabulous lady
I’ve felt icky when I realized that the success of a lot of the “big” names in personal development seems to be heavily dependent on their affiliate programs. It’s not just that people receive money for posting their promotional weblinks but that the business owner has a strategy and plan for encouraging those people to post those links, way above and beyond what would be ‘normal’ word-spreading.
I know a lot of people don’t realize that this happens – which is one reason I wanted to cover this topic. But it gets me wondering: Is an affiliate program the only way a coach can grow their business to that kind of size?
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
Look at all this great conversation–so happy I weighed-in.
You posed another great question: “Is an affiliate program the only way a coach can grow their business to that kind of size?”
My gut tells me no. I believe there are several ways to grow your biz. There’s always more than one path.
In the words of Marie Forleo: If it isn’t a hell yeah, it’s a no.
So until it feels like a compelling yes for me–affiliate programs are a no. Can’t wait to hear what you decide for yourself! xx
Jac McNeil´s last [type] ..The Pit of Ponder
Referrals are more natural when they’re not paid for. But the referrals need to be encouraged and rewarded. I like the “background currency” we have here in China. We call it guan’xi, which translates as “connections” in English.
If you help someone out (e.g. by recommending them), then the unwritten Chinese laws of guan’xi dictate that they’ll obliged to help you out later. A close-knit group of business associates will never pay each other in cash. Instead, they constantly owe each other favours which escalate and constantly flip direction until they part ways. Then, and only then, do people settle any outstanding ‘tab’ (with cash or, more usually, gifts) and “call it quits” (mei guan’xi).
Guan’xi is stronger than money in China. Associates with guan’xi are teated like family. Guan’xi is somewhere between advanced bartering and quantified karma, and it underpins business dealings (and corruption) here in China. Maybe China is the “ideal karmic world” that Dave Hampton talks about!
I think guan’xi is the perfect currency for rewarding referrals. Guan’xi people recommend you because (a) they need your help (but not your cash) and (b) because they really believe you’re doing a great job. Those two reasons are much more rewarding, and better for business, than paying them in cash.
Some of your referrals are just business partners. Pay them in cash. But the most loyal ones are your guan’xi, whom you’ll help out in some other way in the past and future.
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James – Love that you’re bringing in this cross-cultural reference. I felt a bit squashed, though, as I read – the “constantly owing each other” felt pretty exhausting
Does that not take away from the natural flow?
But maybe that’s how it does work here too. I do see myself as being in a very similar system with my Tribe, my colleagues, my friends. We’re constantly cross-referring and we ARE tight-knit in that way. It’s not obligatory but it’s reciprocal and it does flow.
Corrina Gordon-Barnes´s last [type] ..Is it icky to pay for referrals?
Paying for referrals makes me feel very “icky”. I have never found that actively asking my clients for referrals works.
I receive plenty of “natural born” referrals for my clients and reward them for it by giving them tip top treatment and little offers from time to time.
My loyal clients receive loyalty rewards and discounts, which I suppose is another way of looking at “paying” them for referrals but it feels more comfortable for me this way.
I suppose it’s just another perspective but I like to think that they are referring me because I’m good not because I pay them to.
xClaire
Claire – Getting a new client because of someone’s referral is great for the bank account but it’s also a great boost of acknowledgement to know you’re being spoken about well – and you’re right, some of that can fade when money is involved. I think this is why it started feeling “icky” for me, when I felt I was losing some of the “ah, ___ is so kind to be referring me” because another little voice would chime in with, “Well yes that might be the case but she’s also going to get some money for doing that.” The energy was no longer as clear.
Hi Corrina, in general I wouldn`t mind receiving money for a recommendation. But I can see the point where it might be a bit awkward for the person you refer to someone else.
For me I would rather collect precious “Corrina-Coins” and exchange them for one of your seminars, your books (!), or a one to one coaching. This would be more valuable for me.
Cheers
Petra
Petra – Ah bless you – “Corrina Coins” – and I’m a fan of alliteration! And thanks for mentioning the book. It’s coming, it’s coming…
Need a designer?
Why is it you feel the need to reward some one for something they are just doing naturally? Isn’t feeling appreciation enough?
If you must express your gratitude then find a way that really fits your feeling and that person. To my mind if you try to systematise it then you kill the beauty –
love & best wishes
Kirsty – You echo what my colleague Rona commented about this via Facebook – she said “When you tell someone about a great doctor, you don’t expect that doctor to pay you”. And you’re spot on about how systemisation can kill the beauty – especially because it’s often an assistant or affiliate manager or an automated techie system which arranges the payments, so it actually can create distance from the very people we’re wanting to bring close and appreciate.
x
Love that you are asking so powerfully, and love your honesty about being clear about being unclear. More grist for your mill, and will try and bottom line it. I’m clear about this one. I give praise, referrals, networking, some coaching, and of course money (10% of income all the time without question to a spiritually inspiring cause), and let the Universe work out how or if that comes back. I often too will gift someone who has referred significant work to me – a voucher or a meal out – a token of my thanks. And, everytime I tried to formalise this process in terms of some kind of % return for x number of referrals, nothing happened. It’s just way too structured for me, and takes the magic of the mystery of the Universe out of the equation. I delight in reflecting on how maybe my good comes to me from one direction because I gave in another – and yet I never know. All I know is that giving forward, seems to mysteriously open doors to other similar levels of help and support. I have been formally and systematically experimenting with this informal approach to giving for 12 years now and as far as my personal wealth and career advancement and happiness is concerned, I’d say it’s working. In this process, I am always struck by the image of an open hand. We have to open our hand to give money, and also to receive it. If in anyway we have our hand closed – i.e are grasping at the idea of having money – then that sets up the energetic conditions for others to grasp too.
I have failed gloriously to bottomline my response, and yet that is the power of this enquiry.
Good luck in your quest for clarity Corrina, I know that ultimately the power is in being clear, and 100% committed to that perspective, not necessarily what that perspective is.
Love Nick
Nick´s last [type] ..Blue Sky Thinkers Part 1: Richard Branson
Nick – It was actually your commitment to 10% tithing which was part of my original thinking on this. I thought: “I want to give 10% of my profits away… Who or what do I want to give that to?” And rather than a charity or organisation, what came to me was my support of women in business – who form the vast majority of my referral sources – so I thought: “Ta da, let’s put that together with my mentor’s suggestion about starting an affiliate program and give those women the 10%”. It seemed so simple! But actually it hasn’t worked to combine two very separate concepts.
I love this discussion Corrina and all, it’s such a multi-layered area that I too have found it complicated to unravel. To certain degree it’s a minefield, as money for most people is such a loaded topic, and we each have to choose our path through it. Nick, to my mind you bottom-lined your response nicely, by contrast I think mine is going to end being more like an essay…
There have been many great perspectives shared and I loved reading them, and I feel compelled to play devil’s advocate a little…
When I look out at the bigger world, and larger organisations, then this seems to be so common place that we don’t think about it. There are whole teams of people that are paid ‘to’ spread the word in the marketing sales departments of most larger organisations. For many people in sales the larger part of their income is commission based. Yet we don’t find them reminding every customer… ‘by the way, I earn money from selling/referring this to you’ – it’s just their job and they get on with it. Often times they are not referring or selling it because they think it’s great, they just do it because it’s their ‘job’. In fact there are whole businesses and industries built purely on this principle, often known as middlemen, whose revenue is generated by being the hub or link between the manufacturer/producer and the retailer or customer. They earn a percentage from making those connections and creating that flow. At each link in the chain a percentage is added for the ‘service’ or ‘value’ being added that part of the chain, culminating in the final mark up by the retailer. This is so common place that most of us rarely give it a second thought, and yet if we tried to remove it or post a note each time reminding people that this was happening, then much of commerce as we know it would fall down and the flow would stop.
In contrast, it would seem that when things become much closer to home and more personal, and these same principles are applied to our own products and services and our own personal networks it becomes a different ball game, as is highlighted by the discussions above. Our beliefs and values, perceptions and fears all become tangled up in the web. As do those of the people we’re engaging with/serving.
For me the real issue here is about trust, followed a close second in belief and value in what you offer. For me a trusted referral is just that and whether there is a financial transaction involved is irrelevant. I too only ever refer a product or service if I truly believe in it and the value of it, regardless of whether I earn a commission or not. For me that comes down to personal ethics and personal brand reputation. Bad referrals negatively impact your brand and reputation, which reduce trust and value, which ultimately reduce revenue generation, so it’s just not worth it.
So the question really becomes, do I trust this referral source? If the answer is yes, then that’s what counts in my book.
The second issue is about how much you believe in your own offering, and the value it brings to your clients/market. In my view if someone refers my products and services purely for the financial incentive, then as long as I’m delivering high value to the people that arrive at my door that’s ok. They get what they want – more money, and I get more great people to make a difference with and help change their lives for the better. Win-win! The only time I would have an issue with this is if my products/services were being misrepresented or promoted alongside others that weren’t of a similar quality/value.
As someone who never used to really value money, I’ve come to learn that wasn’t really serving me. I now view it in a similar way to as Katie Rose mentioned – that money is just another part of the energy flow. It’s currency, as in literally, and also as in a similar way to electrical current – the more of it I have, the more charged I become, and more resource I have to serve, create positive and give back. It’s by no means the only resource I need, but it is one of them, and it’s very hard to give and make a difference when your own pot is empty.
Another key aspect for me here is what type of businesses are we running? Is it a business, a charity, or a hobby? They’re all fine. None are good or bad, they’re just different. If you’re running business then one of your purposes is to make money and generate a profit. That’s essentially one core function of a business. It may be just money for you, it may be money for other people you employ, shareholders, investors, but make no mistake, money is part of business. If you are a charity, then one of your goals is also to make money, the difference being that you are non-profit making and all of your profit is donated to your cause. If it’s a hobby, then you’re doing it because you love it, the money is really irrelevant and you’re probably just looking to make enough to cover your expenses.
The point above feeds into the discussion in a couple of ways. The first one is in relation to transparency. I too am a big advocate of transparency, yet in this context I think it has a huge potential unintended impact. If you are in business, then to my mind making money is already communicated – it’s part of your purpose/function, and therefore why is it necessary to highlight when you are making a commission for a referral or recommendation? It is already implied by the nature of being business. I have experimented with adding a note when I post an affiliate link in my blog or elsewhere, but I’ve come to the conclusion that when we do so we have the unintended impact of creating suspicion where there need be none, because it is so different to what people are used to in the wider world. So I honour the intention here, but don’t feel it is either necessary or helpful. Many people have posted that they would only ever refer something if they truly believed in the product or service, whether money was involved or not, so it’s clear to me that we already have great integrity in this area, so why would we need a sub-note if there is a commission involved. It sets money apart as something different, when it need not be. It’s just another form of thank you and in my view need not be distinguished as different from any other kind of thank you, whether that be a gift, a dinner, giving to charity.
). Well worth a read. One way to make this easier is by offering a commission or referral fee. That way when referrals primarily pass in once direction then the referrer still feels like they are benefiting.
As Susan and other have raised, the point about reciprocation is a tricky one when passing referrals. It’s often not always easy for it to be reciprocal, and many people do get caught up keeping score and is usually doesn’t serve them . One of my favourite books that talks about this is the ‘Go Giver’ by Bob Burg (and yes that is an affiliate link
At the Fast Forward your Business seminar I attended last month, Roger Hamilton was teaching us the top 10 big changes coming our way in the next 20-30 years and how they are likely to affect our businesses. One of the points he highlighted was that the businesses that survive and thrive, as speed rate of change in the business world continues to accelerate, will be those businesses that offer their customers a way to sell their products for them and benefit in some way. Be that through a commission, reward points, discount etc. So assuming that is the way things go, this may be an area that we all need to give further consideration to.
Ultimately, the bottom line is choice. I’d never advocate anyone to force their referral sources to receive a commission, I do think an affiliate programme or something along those lines can be a valuable addition to any business looking to grow, expand and reach a wider audience. It’s for each of us to choose what feels right for us. What’s most important to me that we don’t fuel any further negative associations with money and I truly believe they don’t serve us or the people we’re seeking to help.
Neil I love your metaphor about the hand needing to be open in order to both give and receive. It really bottom lines it for me. I have to say if anything, I sometimes feel more ‘icky’ when someone doesn’t want anything for their referral than when they do. It can sometimes feel like I’ve taken advantage of them. I know that’s not true, but that’s my issue to work on.
Corrina, thanks for posting such a great discussion topic. You’ve certainly stirred my thinking and I’m (half) sorry for posting a response that’s longer than the original article. I hope it stimulates further discussion and encouraged some deeper thinking. Love and light,
Kyle
Kyle – Wow, you’re passionate about this topic, huh?
Thanks for showing up here!
Your comment begs these questions:
Is it okay for people to promote our business who don’t care about our work BUT who bring us to the attention of clients who need us and can benefit from our work? Does it matter how someone hears about us as long as they do?
I guess it’s similar to how HostGator promotes my work by hosting this website, even though the company itself doesn’t have any opinion (positive or negative) about my work. Or how trains take me places or conference lines make my teleclasses available. In other words,is an affiliate sales force playing the same role: being a neutral vehicle for transporting the word about our work?
This feels like a very different beast from the ‘referral reward’ system, which I was playing with, which is retrospective. An affiliate system involves actively and strategically asking people to post links and spread the word. You are then indeed paying people TO promote you and those people need never have experienced your work.
I know this is how a lot of companies (big and small) do operate. What do others think?
Corrina, you’re right. I am very passionate about it. Especially about how people perceive money. It has so much negative stuff loaded on to it that doesn’t serve us, or our clients, and I really want to helps us let that go so we can tap into our true power and magnificence.
In response to your questions. Firstly, yes in my view it is okay for people to promote our business who don’t care about our work BUT who bring us to the attention of clients who need us and can benefit from our work. Bottom line is more people, bigger impact, better world. Subject of course to the caveats I put in my original post about not being mis-represented, or promote alongside other rubbish stuff that devalues the brand/offering. That said, I also believe that affiliate programmes or similar schemes should be designed and created for our fans, supporters, existing clients who love what we do and that is where we should focus our attention.
No, I don’t think it matters where they hear about us. For me that ties into the well known adage ‘There’s no such as bad publicity’. If we truly believe in the work we are doing then I believe we should be focused more on serving the people that arrive at our door, and less about how they got there.
I think you’re exactly right. It is just like a neutral vehicle for transporting the word about our work. Once that vehicle is in motion though, there is nothing to stop us building relationship with those people and bringing them into our fold so that they too become raving fans of the work we do. I believe if you’re going to run an affiliate programme, or something similar, then it has to be open to all and you do have to build a relationship with the people who join. And you also have the right to terminate their participation if they breach your terms/values etc.
One of the reasons I advocate this approach is that I’m a big fan of share the wealth models like profit sharing, network marketing (when done properly), affiliate programmes and joint ventures etc. They feel good to me and I love the concept of sharing the rewards, only succeeding by helping others succeed, and ultimately being collaborative and supportive ways of working.
Here’s another take on this whole situation… If we don’t have some kind of share the wealth scheme (affiliate, referral reward system, whatever you choose) are we not just being as greedy as the fat cats at the top and hogging all the money for ourselves…
I love some of the other suggestion of giving the charity too, an affiliate scheme can really help with this too. The bigger your audience, the more wealth you accumulate, the more you can give to your charity/cause.
There have been quite a few comments about it being natural, systemising taking the beauty of it away. I believe that we are all creative enough to create systems that serve both and that these are not mutually exclusive. For me it’s about finding the AND as opposed to picking one of the OR’s.
Hi Corrina,
Just a quick comment.
Having just read an e-newsletter from Heart of Business (http://www.heartofbusiness.com) I notice that they wite “Note that links in this email to other resources may, at times, be affiliate links where if you purchase something, Heart of Business will receive a financial thank you from the seller”. I really love the Heart of Business approach and their emails etc and wasn’t at all offended by their declaration.
Namaste
Ani
I once got asked to spread a word by a colleague visiting in my area and was offering private sessions. When talking about getting a bonus back for that I felt very uncomfortable – I didn’t feel good to benefit from word of mouth. What I would have loved though would have been to tell the people: “Hey, you know what? If you say I referred you you’ll get an extra discount of 10% on your session!” — I would have rather given the benefit to my friend than benefit from it myself … unfortunately my colleague didn’t agree for such an arrangement (but would have given me a benefit, which I didn’t want), and that seriously hindered my enthusiasm of spreading the word.
Dirk´s last [type] ..Exercise to resolve resistance